randomWalks

Convicted Killer Seeks Clemency Hearing (LA Times) Registration required. login/password combo: bselig/bselig.

Here is another outrageous California case, involving, of all things, a lying jailhouse informant named Fink.

I lived in Chino, Ca. when this man you are trying to save MURDERED an entire family. He gave false information to the prison system and was placed in min. security. He later escaped and hid in a corn field until dark. He then walked up a hilside where this INNOCENT family was sleeping in their beds. He broke in and killed all but one child, which by the way, was the same age as my son, with the same name;Joshua. He cut the boys neck and when Kevin was not looking, the boy crawled into the bath tub and nearly bled to death. He witnessed the entire ordeal...So, now this 23 yr. old man, whom last I heard cannot speak, gets to re-live this entire ordeal, through the media, and all the old bottled up feelings will be back to haunt him...How would all you "heroes" like it if something like this happend to your family?? Why don't you ask Joshua....

I don't know if you're going to bother to come back, but what's a worse possibility--the fact that these crimes committed or the fact that this occurred AND the wrong man is going to die for it AND the person or people that did it are still free?

In this case there are huge amounts of evidence that were ignored or tampered with that point to Cooper's innocence--most telling was a clump of BLOND HAIR in the hands of one of the victims. That didn't come from any of the other victims, nor did it come from Cooper. Moreover, someone else confessed. Take five minutes to look at the site linked above.

There have been more than 100 innocent people freed from Death Row. What makes you so sure that Cooper's not another?

I too lived in Chino when this happened.

The so called "famous people" who support

this crazed killer need to learn a little

more facts in this case.

Kevin's DNA was found on the hachet clothing

the cigarette butts in their stolen car.

These supporters think they are intellects

to be listened too?

What a joke! What fools they make out of themselves!

The Governor has spoken. He will die a

peaceful death.

If he truly had found God, he would of confessed.

If anybody deserves to be executed it is Kevin Cooper. He is a evil person and does not deserve a second chance. He did not give my nephew a second change when he killed him. I wonder if you people would feel the same way if it was your family that he killed.

This crime was committed by a crew, not an individual, and if you really are related to the victim or live anywhere near Chino you should be angry and frightened that they are still at large.

Zagg’s right. Read the link. A girl gave a pair of bloody coveralls to the cops and said her boyfriend was involved in the murders. The cops threw the coveralls in a dumpster. She bought her boyfriend a brown t-shirt that matches one found at the crime scene, but she didn’t testify. A friend of hers even confessed involvement, telling his cellmate things that weren’t publicly known about the murders.

This evidence was not heard at trial. How can this be fair? How can you be so sure you’re right? How can minions of the same bureaucracy that runs the DMV and Franchise Tax Board accurately decide who should be put to death?

I hear it's a racist thing.. The Forensics

were botched......Just Like OJ's

RW Stewart

i think it time to tell kevin copper " hasta la vista "

...Blond hair, bloody overalls,dumpsters...None of that explains how HIS DNA was found at the crime scene. I know what your next comment will be: "It was planted" and "it's all been contaminated". For those of you who think you know the facts by reading various web sites, of which, most were penned by Kevin Cooper,himself. You should have been in the city all the while this was taking place first hand...Most of what has been said is fairly recent. Kevin and his "team" have had a few years to come up with so many "theories" as to what could have happen. Bottom line, they have their man, and his lack of inteligence or his skin color has absolutly to do with any of this. I think it's time you all need stop using race as a reason why it's impossible for any man or woman not to have commited a crime.....For those who are interested is saving lives...There are MANY ways to do so...There are hundreds of innocent lives that are distroyed each day, most of the time because: "it's inconvient" and "bad timing"...Why aren't you spending your time creating sites and posting messages to further PRO LIFE causes????? Those are the lives that are truly INNOCENT!!

To all the familes involved in this case, I pray that GOD gives you all grace and the peace you will need to get through this...May our are Lord bless and be with you now and always...

You should have been in the city all the while this was taking place first hand

Yes, the lovely city of Chino circa 1983, where a toy gorilla is hung in effigy by a racist crowd at the guy's trial.

Here's Indymedia on the DNA issue: "Cooper won the right to a DNA test after a three-year fight. The blood tested was determined to be his. But Cooper and his lawyers were unaware that a portion of the evidence had been removed for 24 hours by a criminologist who admitted to changing test results."

Also: "Joshua Ryen, the sole witness to his family's murder, told police there were three killers and that they were all white or Latino men."

No one's saying "Free Kevin Cooper" at this point, or at least I'm not. We're saying, let's stop the death machine for just a moment and take another look.

For all you people that think Mr. Cooper should have his life saved you were not there you did not see what he has done to my family. He had a fair trail and all the DNA testing has Mr. Cooper's name all over it. As far as the jury not hearing all the evidence the transcripts from the trial are open to the public to read. Maybe you should read them before you say anything. You were not at the trial. I wonder if you would so willing if it was your family.

Jane, Over the years I have often thought of your family, how is Joshua doing? Tell him my family and I are praying for all of you! At this point, it must be very hard for you. I know there can never be justice in another "murder", but this is the "law of the land" and we must all be law abiding otherwise people who stand on the fence between good and evil may not think twice when they take it upon themselves to take someones life. We have "free will", it's up to us to choose the direction we will go. Our God is a just God. There is freedom in knowing that if Kevin is "saved", as he says he is, then on the day of his "judgement" he will have an opportunity to answer for his entire life and be assured of his eternity...God bless you all!

He had a fair trail ...

In your opinion.

all the DNA testing has Mr. Cooper's name all over it.

And the charges that the DNA testing was tampered doesn't bother you in the least?

What about the other confession? It doesn't put any doubt in you at all that someone else has confessed to the crime?

I wonder if you would so willing if it was your family.

I've been on the flip side. I've worked with dozens of people that were wrongly convicted that have since been exonerated. There have been more than 110 people convicted and put on death row--some even that had execution dates--that were eventually found innocent.

But there were others who we think were innocent that were executed. That feels pretty horrible too--knowing that someone who is innocent is being put to death by a state that doesn't care. And knowing that they'd rather kill the wrong man than make sure the justice system is working. They'd rather put innocent men to death than admit that the system might not be working. And they'll do whatever it takes--including lie and tamper with evidence--to make the system seem infallible.

I attended school with Christopher Hughes, one of Kevin Cooper's victims. I was 12 when the crime was committed. I am now 33 years old. The time for Kevin Cooper to pay for his crime has come.

1. The "blond hairs" found glued to the victims hands with their blood belong to the dozens of animals they owned. They lived on a horse ranch. Animal hair was all over the house.

2. Mr. cooper was initially identified as the suspect based on the fact he CALLED HIS GIRLFRIEND from the vacant house next door to the Ryen's, where the murder weapons and bloody clothes were later discovered. You're telling me that a desperate escaped convict (who previously escaped from a mental hospital for the criminally insane in pennsylvania where he raped and tried to stab to death a young girl) found the only vacant house in the area, broke in, called his girlfriend who refused to come get him, then, being the kind hearted sole that he is, simply WALKED 100 miles TO TIJUANA. Then, 5 minutes after he started his walk, ANOTHER person found the same abandoned house (which lies over a mile away from any public road), collected the weapons that would be used in the crime, and killed 4 people? What planet do you live on? Kevin Cooper NEEDED a getaway car. For that old beat up green panel station wagon, he MURDERED the ocupants of that house while they slept.

3. There was no opportunity for the police to "plant the evidence" because Mr. Cooper was a fugitive for 3 months after the crime was committed. The police did not HAVE his blood to plant at the scene until 3 months after it was discovered. He was then arrested... for raping the woman who had taken him in.

And ANOTHER THING!

1. As far as the "others confessing" argument. In EVERY high profile crime, (and this was the BIGGEST, MOST NOTORIOUS crime in the LARGEST COUNTY IN AMERICA) DOZENS of nutcases climb out of the woodwork to confess to the crime. If "other people confessed" was the test we used to not incarcerate people, WE COULD NEVER punish ANYBODY. Many confess because they are seriously mentally ill, and crave the fame that goes along with such a crime. Likewise, prisoners are NOTORIOUS for confessing to their cellmates to violent crimes they weren't involved in, because in prison, people who have killed have a special status among the rest of their social set. And be honest... When the next death penalty case comes up where the defendant confessed to the crime, the same people who are now arguing that "we HAVE to listen to the confessions" of these nutcases are going to drag out the "false confession" arguments to prove that confessions are worthless.

2. As far as race being an issue, if you had any clue about the heinous nature of this crime, you would understand race has nothing to do with it. Everybody who knew how these people were butchered knew what the only just penalty could be, before the race of the killer was even known. Whether the killer was white, black, brown or green, doesn't matter. The only color that matters in this case is the RED of the victims blood that was drained all over that house. It just so happens the person who did it is black, which gives his supporters just another falacious argument to throw against the wall to see if it sticks. If there is going to be a death penalty in this country, (and that is a question for another debate. The penalty was in effect when the crime was committed and is in effect 20 years later because a majority of the populice wants it) then this is the crime it was designed for. What can be more deserving of the ultimate punishment than the hatchet murder of children?

3. As far as the "bloody coveralls" and "Brown shirt" argument. A woman, who admits to abusing crystal meth around the time of the crime; who lived 50 miles from the crime; who, by the way, met her boyfriend who was incarcerated for killing someone else while visiting her previous boyfriend in prison, (read: "NUTCASE") says: her "Hells Angles" boyfriend came home from a biker bar on the same Saturday night of the murders with blood on his coveralls. How many "Hells Angeles" come home on any given Saturday night with bloody clothes simply because their lifestyle is one of frequent drunken brawls? Oh but wait... she bought him a BROWN SHIRT!!! Stop the Presses! I wonder how many MILLIONS of BROWN shirts there are in the country. And lets not forget the kicker- It was revealed to her, that her boyfriend committed the murder while she was doing a SEANCE with her other witch friends....

The fact that THIS unrelated garbage is EVIDENCE to you people of Cooper's innocence, but the FACT that KEVIN COOPER admits to hiding in the same house the killer used to clean up after the crime is just a 'wild coincidence', proves your real agenda. YOU DON'T CARE that he killed them. Your idealogical disagreement with the punishment is such that you would beleive anything he said if it furthered your cause.

We're generally opposed to the death penalty around here, son. And your spelling is terrible.

The fact that you were 12 when the murders were committed hardly gives you special insight on this case or the appropriateness of the death penalty. Just the opposite.

I've been a lawyer in the State of California for 20 years. The sad fact of life is that our cops lie, plant evidence, and fuck up left and right. This was a particularly sloppy, dubious prosecution even by California standards. There is clear doubt about the man's guilt, and it would be a disgrace if he is executed.

First off , I have to disagree with xowie that, " It would be a disgrace if he is executed!" No offense, but what the hell do you even know about this case, do you even live around here, do you know anything about this case? We all lived around here and we want to see some justice. Maybe California should start thinking a little more about the death penalty, then assholes like him wouldn't be free. To me, he already murdered before, stolen ,raped, then on top of all this he's convicted of murdering the Ryen family. People try to say that he had nothing to do with this murder that he didnt kill the family, but he was still there that night, and isnt that just as bad that he helped out? I think everyone that lives here in my area want peace now in their lives, and they should have it, Kevin Cooper must die!!!!

Well, my dad worked for the Beet Sugar company (the biggest employer in Chino Hills) when I was growing up, and I myself have lived in Southern California for 20 years. I have been hearing about the Ryen family murders just about as long as I've been here.

It is a fact that many residents of Chino disgraced themselves and their community twenty years ago holding "Hang the Nigger" signs at a public trial. The comments you all have left here don't seem too far removed from the lynch mob mentality, sadly.

Also, keep in mind that you are guests here. Attacks on our editors, besides being rude, betray the ignorance and vulgarity of your own position (and will of course be deleted).

I was one of the first Deputies to respond to the Ryen House on Old English Road at Approx.1045 on Sunday June 4 1983. I can tell you that the images of death that were personally witnessed that day can be brought back at a given moment. My heart goes out to the Hughes family and the Ryen family.I remember making contact with Mr. Hughes at the crime scene.As a parent of a 12 year old boy I can not imagine how he must have felt that morning.I have read all of the garbage listed above that disputes the guilt of Kevin Cooper.The fact is,he is a cold blooded killer that was convicted by evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.He will and should be put to death at12:01 on 2-10-04.Do not believe the "smoke" that Coopers advocates have thrown out there.The world is about to become a better place.

Dear rh, thank you for your comment.

In all your experience as a Sheriff's Deputy have you ever seen (or even heard about) a quadruple murder committed by one person with three different weapons? Why would one man use a hatchet, knife and icepick when only a hatchet or knife would do?

I'm sure it was an unbelievable crime scene, but on your first observation, did you think it likely there was a single perpetrator, or multiple perpetrators? Did you think it likely that the perpetrator(s) were amped on meth or PCP, or was your impression that this was the work of a sober individual?

Was the Sheriff’s Department and Police Department sincerely interested in pursuing multiple leads to solve the case? Was any real attention paid to the biker gang theory? What would have been the reaction if someone wanted to spend Department resources on pursuing that lead?

What was the reputation of the Sheriff’s Department and P.D. at the time? Were there any racist cops there? ACLU or CHIRLA complaints? Undocumented workers, stopped at random on the street, things like that? (You know this stuff is on record.)

Did you testify at the trial? Did you personally observe anything that led you to believe in Kevin Cooper's guilt and sole responsibility?

Eric, It's nice to see that someone knows what is really going on. I'm Christophers aunt we would like to talk with you. We still live in the same house and go to the same church. Could we connect at church?

Jane

shame on you!

They were my friends. I went to school with them.

Joshua was a very scared little boy 21 years ago. He has lived the last 21 years with the memories of that night, when his big sister, his friend two houses over and his parent were brutally murdered. Here, to many of you comment that it's black history month, how can we allow this? Where the hell were you 21 years ago when Joshua got his throat cut and lives with seeing those scares daily? I don't remember you being there for this little boy. I remember sitting with my mother crying when we found out, I was never allowed to see him again, I was never allowed to tell him how sorry i was. I hope, I pray that Justice is done and that Josh can finally put this bad horify memory behind him. Kevin Cooper didn't desirve to live the past 21 years with three free meals a day, t.v., a weight room, and rehabilitation. Who took care of those things for Josh, not you, not the state. Shame on you all who think that kevin cooper has a right to continue to live off my tax paying dime.

The L.A. Archdiocese has a nice page of resources on the flaws of this case, e.g.:

• During a police interview, Ms. Roper told police that Furrows was wearing a beige t-shirt the night of the murders.

• The police found a beige, bloodstained t-shirt approximately 1/2 mile from the crime scene, which t-shirt was determined to have Doug Ryen’s blood on it.
• Patrons of the rural bar right next to where the shirt was found reported seeing three, unfamiliar, white men at the bar the night of the murders. The bartender testified that one of three men was wearing a beige t-shirt, similar to the one that was found to have Doug Ryen's blood on it.
• Ms. Roper also told police that Furrows owned a hatchet that was missing from his tool belt after the murders.
• Consistent with Josh Ryen’s statements made immediately after the crime, eyewitnesses saw three or four people speeding away from the Ryen Family house in the family’s car, shortly after the murders were committed.
• A convicted felon, Kenneth Koon, confessed to his cellmate, Anthony Wisely, that he was involved with two other men in the Ryen Family murders. Koon and Furrows know each other. According to the cellmate, on the day of the murders, Furrows bailed an individual named Michael Darnell, out of jail. Furrows, Darnell, and Koon are three white men, all of whom share a criminal history, including one being convicted of a grisly murder. Koon told his cellmate that the Ryen murders were an Aryan Brotherhood ‘hit’ gone wrong.
• Jurors never heard evidence of the Koon confession or Diana Roper’s statements.

Also via the Archdiocese page: A Comparison of the Illinois Commission Report on Capital Punishment to the Capital Punishment System of California, which concludes:

"The conclusion of the study is that California’s system is seriously flawed and dangerously unjust. There is no assurance that the people on California’s death row, the largest death row population of any state in the United States, have been selected fairly or with any assurance of accuracy."

Shame on thee, California!

Jane:

I tried to send you an email, but the address was denied. Id very much like to speak with you, but I no longer live near Claremont. Send me an email.

Thanks!

Xowie

Yes, I did testify at the trial,which was in fact moved to San Diego( just in case you may question my knowlegdge of the case)I take exeption to your comments about the law enforcement profession, I need not get into a lawyer ehics debate.

I have been in this profession long enough to know that we do have "bad Cops", we find them,fire them, prosecute them and get back to work upholding the laws in which we are paid to enforce.

I also understand your passion for the cause against the death penalty.My faith (based on your references above) is the same as yours.(Please do not comment on how ashamed I should be to support the death penalty,that is not what this is about).

I have personnally witnessed hundreds of VICTIMS whose lives were taken by the likes of the Kevin Coopers of the world.

Everyone has a right to voice thier opinion.I respect yours,I disagree with it in this case, but I still respect it!That is what makes America so great.

I am not some closed minded "Cop" that you have whitewashed in your comments from above.I am well educated,well read,and open to change my opinions if presented with enough evidence.

I understand that the death penalty opponents are currently making the Kevin Cooper case thier cause for the moment.Good for them.

I did in fact in the beginning question how one man could do this to a family and neighbor.After reviewing all of the evidence and walking through the crime scene (in my mind) I quickly came to the conclusion that one man did do this,his name is Kevin Cooper.

I do not look forward to seeing Mr.Hughes "late" Monday eve. I am sure that I will shed a tear or two on his behalf,and for the four souls that are no longer here to enjoy life.

So much is written about the suspect and not enough about the VICTIMS. I do however look forward to bringing an end to one of the most horrific crimes in the history of San Bernardino County.

If my opinion on the death penalty changes upon my return to the Southland on Tues.afternoon, I am open minded enough to let you know.

Thanks. I hope the execution is put off and you won’t have to go, because you’re a Christian man and it won’t be easy for you, regardless of what you may think now.

Most cops would say it's impossible for a single assailant to attack five people by hand and kill four of them, including an ex-Marine, without being completely whacked out on PCP or meth. Your own eyes told you this was not the work of one man. You had to be socialized into believing it, by reading evidence others had collected and interpreted.

By the way, don’t think for a minute that Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe would be involved if this case had no merit. Orrick is one of the most prestigious law firms in California; their work in the bond underwriting area makes it possible for most police departments and other city agencies in California to stay in business. They took on the case because there is substantial evidence of Kevin Cooper’s innocence.

Xowie:

I owe you an apology.

This site has done more to organize and vulcanize support for the execution of Kevin Cooper than anything in the last twenty years.

You do owe me an apology. You were quite rude last night. Yet I allowed you connect with Jane because that was the Christian thing to do.

I'm responding to:

jeri at January 30, 2004 08:17 PM

I'm so sorry your nephew suffered and was killed. I am deeply sorry for your loss. I remain opposed to capital punishment and feel that it is precisely your response that motivate this writing and my determination to end capital punishment.

Many problems remain in our culture regarding death sentencing. IF I had lost a family member, my feelings would no doubt be conflicted and confused and very possibly vile and seeking reciprocation... an eye for an eye. However, as a civil society, it is my civic obligation to think rationally and not to succumb to these kinds of feelings associated with grieving and great personal loss - on behalf of you and innocent victims wrongly accused also.

HOW DO WE BEHAVE AS A culture, as a community, as a SOCIETY the world over on the matter of retribution - of imposing death sentencing?

We must act from another plane - from the fact that:

- we are not capable to judge others at this level of finality (imposing death), because we err too.

- we create conditions that promote horrorific actions and we must examine those also.

- those who must execute our desires as a culture to kill humans suffer with the remorse and contradictions thier actions bring in their own lives

Please read thoroughly about the history of death by the state.

Be well and thanks for reading.

Louise

Two new links, from Democracy Now! and Counterpunch

"My Innocence Keeps Me Strong" - Kevin Cooper Speaks From Death Row

and "This is not my execution and I will not claim it..

I find it so hard that there are people out there that try and protect these killers. It makes me sick. I remember this case like it was yesterday. I feel so bad for the families who have gone threw this whole ordeal. The pain and suffering that is still remembered daily. The thing that sticks out the most is how these supporters of Kevin Cooper claim that racism is involved. How about the fact that his victims were white? Why is this always the case. Its always the poor CONVICTED murderer that gets to play the race card. Why don't we start playing the race card that the fact his victims were white. Those poor kids, i can't imagine the look on there face while being sliced and stabbed to death by human garbage. How about the Witchita Massacre? The Carr brothers murderd all those white kids? Know why because hate crimes do happen against whites. Look at Zimbabwe, Mugabe ordered the murder of white farmers. I can't wait till Feb 10.

I find it so hard to believe that people posting here can be so sure when so many others have doubts, including members of the original jury:

Amassed in the arguments are statements from at least six jurors, including an alternate and the foreman, expressing their doubts because of controversy that has brewed since the investigation of the 1983 murders of a Chino Hills couple, their daughter and a young houseguest while they slept.

"Because the murders were so atrocious, and because of the devastating loss of life, at the time I let the police misconduct go and sentenced Mr. Cooper to death. I now regret that decision," one juror wrote.

Also it's not like Schwarzenegger simply denied clemency--he denied a clemency hearing. Cooper is the first person since California re-instituted the death penalty in 1978 to ever be denied a hearing.

I find it so hard that there are people out there that try and protect these killers.

It makes me sick.

Me too, Rusty. And that's why I don't want the state to commit murder in my name.

It is such a shame that this conversation is taking olace 20 years after the murders of a family. Mr Coopers defense team(s) have dreamed up every possible defense over the years bring one after the other to the courts for ajudication. All previous appeals have failed. When DNA evidence became accepted they sought a review useing it. Again the evidence pointed directly to Mr. Cooper. I would guess that if we wait another 20 years to bring justice in this case there would be another 20 differnet theories about how it could not have been Kevin Cooper. I hope your work on this case eases your conscience for charging the public millions for the work your firm does on behalf cities and counties. I wonder what it would take to convince you and your followers of a persons guilt? I remember the Robert Alton Harris case and all of the death penalt foes wanted that conviction overturned also. Oh, did I forget to mention that Robert Alton Harris killed to peopl and later confessed to doing it.

It doesn't sound like you have any understanding of what is going on or who you are talking to. Nobody here has any connection with the law firms involved in the case. I suggest you click on some of the links and do some reading. You clearly have a lot to learn.

For anybody interested, here is a link to a site that has posted the evidence used to convict Kevin Cooper. Keep in mind that this is before the DNA evidence proved he was there.

http://www.kfi640.com/kevincooper.html

I stand corrected, your refernce to the law firm as a means of shoring up your argument led me to believe that you were with that firm. As for reading about this issue I have lived and worked in the San Bernadino County area most of my life. I have read and talked with individuals who were present at the crime scene. I have been to the Ryen home and I am aware of the layout of the property.

I have also read a couple of Mr. Coopers writings were he alleges that he has come to peace with God. If he has accepted the Lord into his heart then he must also appoligize to his victims. No where did I read were he has said he is sorry.

Also for someone his defense attorney said was of limited mental capcity his writings are pretty good.

Here is another article which shows the ridiculous nature of Kevin Cooper's defense.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2004/01/30/EDGCS4K72R1.DTL

That's not exactly a ton of evidence; even the Court acknowledges that it's all circumstantial, and the DNA test is under challenge.

Don't forget, the trial judge stated several times on the record that the evidence was badly mishandled by the police.

Here's yesterday's full-page New York Times ad in support of Kevin Cooper.

The DNA is "under challenge" only because his supporters didn't like the result. There isn't a shred of actual evidence that points to ANYBODY but Kevin Cooper. Not once ounce. The goal of these people is to stall, delay, twist and lie, until all the people who remember the truth are dead, and the only people left just know the lie. I am happy to see so many people who remember the truth.

Counter-culture icon Wavy Gravy, dressed as 'Insanity Claus,' is led away by California Highway Patrol officers yesterday as he and others at the gates of San Quentin State Prison protested the upcoming execution of convicted killer Kevin Cooper.

Bonus links:

Rally in Berkeley to halt execution of inmate

California killing: the case of Kevin Cooper by Mumia Abu-Jamal

'Hurricane' Carter asks the governor to delay execution

Who says times have changed? by Kevin Cooper

Comment for Erik,

Wow, just read the info. on the site you posted. Hopefully others will read it as well. I am at a loss for words...For anyone to say this guy was at the wrong place at the wrong time, they are right. Just wish he didn't have to kill a family while "in the wrong place"...

God's blessings to all of you, goodnight!

You people are too much! The next thing you'll be saying is Richard Ramirez was wrongly convicted too. I would rather my tax dollars be spent helping educate children so they have a future instead of spent on supporting daily life for people who choose to murder the innocent.

Richard Ramirez, heh! We must like murderers around here, right?

Executing Kevin Cooper will not save your tax dollars or help the schoolchildren. An average execution in California costs $2,087,926, vs. $1,448,935 for life imprisonment without possibility of parole.

Xowie:

Now be honest. The additional cost to the taxpayers to execute somebody like Kevin Cooper is a result of all the bogus lawsuits and appeals people like you (those who oppose the death penalty) file to prevent the execution, which the state has to defend.

There's a little circular logic there, and it borders on political extortion.

The additional cost to the taxpayers to execute somebody like Kevin Cooper is a result of all the bogus lawsuits and appeals people like you (those who oppose the death penalty) file to prevent the execution, which the state has to defend.

Cuz Lord knows the state is infallible, right? They've never convicted an innocent man before, right? Let's just get rid of that pesky appeals process. Then the state will never have to admit when it convicts the wrong person!

Of course, I at least am opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances--not just in cases where there are questions of innocence.

Xowie:

1. Proper jury instructions are an element of every criminal trial. It doesn't cost any more for that.

2. The dual nature of the trial is deminimus compared to the cost of the guilt phase of a murder trial.

3. In California, Capital crimes are automatically appealed. I have no problem with that. You and I both know however, that isn't the end. In the next 4 days, Cooper's attorneys will bring appeals based upon the consitutionality of the death penalty, a matter LONG established in appeal after appeal after appeal before the U.S. Supreme Court. Those appeals will fail. You know it, and I know it. But they will bring them, and they will march them up the judicial ladder until the U.S.S.C. screams "ENOUGH! DON'T COME BACK!" They will bring appeal's based on the "new evidence," evidence which has been available and vetted multiple times over the last 20 years and managed to convince NOBODY except those with a political objection to the penalty. They will argue his previous lawyers were incompetent. They will argue he is mentally impaired (despite the fact that people who support him always comment on how bright and articulate he is.) These appeals all come on top of the half dozen or so appeals he has already brought, which time and again have been DENIED. At some point, even you must say to yourself "I guess he is guilty???"

Xowie, the fact that you are convinced of his innocense is irrelevent, because given your anti-death penalty stance, YOU COULD NEVER GET ON A DEATH PENALTY JURY IN THE FIRST PLACE! You would be kicked for cause.

I beleive Kevin Cooper is the greatest master of escape since Harry Houdini. Since the time he was 7 (when he first got into trouble with the law) until he was incarcerated in 1983, he managed to escape from no less than 12, Juvenile detention centers, jails, and mental hospitals. Escaping from San Quentin's death row is a bit more difficult, and can't be accomplished without help. So what has he done for the last 20 years? He has recruited hundreds of accomplices who are trying to aid his 13th escape from justice.

Zagg:

Nope, the state is fallable, it can make a mistake, that is why there is an automatic appeal. And with the advent of DNA testing, mistakes have become less of an issue. I have no problem with either. My problem is with when the results don't go your way, you appeal again, and again, and again, in a process that amounts to forum shopping. If you can just get the winning lottery ticket of an anti-death penalty justice, who is as blind to the evidence as you are, then the whole process starts AGAIN.

Kevin Cooper is INNOCENT! (PERIOD)

all you people who think different go to this website OK!

http://icujp.org/pdf/02.10.04_deathPenalty.pdf

NOW try to prove me wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nothing new on that site. Just the same old claptrap by the anti capital punishment gang that we've heard for the last 20 years.

Also, you have the burden of proof backwards. He has already been found GUILTY beyond a reasonable doubt. You have to PROVE there was some mistake in that trial, and every piece of evidence brought forward to this point either further proves he is GUILTY or is unverifiable conjecture.

Martha why don't you read the court documents from the trial it's open to the public. You people need to get your facts right. Cooper is guilty and is going to go to hell. They have the right man. Did you sit in court everyday and hear and see what went on I don't think so.

Nice job, Martha! There's more information about why Kevin Cooper should be saved over at the MetaFilter thread.

Mumia speaks.

Also, just a reminder that while I'm happy to keep debating with those that disagree, those who support Cooper should still be calling and e-mailing Schwarzenegger.

Lanny Davis, Rubin 'Hurricane' Carter and Kevin Cooper on today's Democracy Now.

Whoops. I missed that Xowie had already posted that Mumia link.

Also, just a reminder those who SUPPORT THE DEATH PENALTY for Cooper should also still be calling and e-mailing Schwarzenegger.

And by an NBC news poll 70% favor his execution, while 23% oppose (the rest are undecided.)

Funny, an Internet poll at the SF Chronicle shows that 70 percent support commuting his sentence to life.

Zagg

With all due respect, consider the source. I think we can both agree that San Francisco is by far the most left leaning city in the State, if not the country. If subscribers to the chronicle were a representation of the state as a whole, you would be e-mailing Governor Davis....

OH! I agree!!! don't give him an injection! give him what he gave that family!!

Gosh, that's witty. Strong opposition to execution -- And it's not just death-penalty foes.

Howard Stern? yea right,nice attempt to try and get everyone fired up.This is not a race issue!!

This is an issue of a convicted cold blooded killer that has been extended every possible legal remedy.There is nothing new to read about,or write about on the Kevin Cooper case.

Why is it that the likes of Xowie,Zagg and others NEVER write about the victims, or the surviving family members ??Lets seperate this case from the others rather than lump it together with all of the others cases that have CONVICTED KILLERS on death row.

I look at the photos of the young people that have posed with Kevin Cooper on some of the web site photos and feel very sorry for them.If any of them were to actually see any of the photos of the crime scene their skin would crawl.Sometimes youth truly is ignorant.

Yes Kevin Cooper now looks somewhat harmless,he has aged, and has written some interesting articles.Time does not change what he did on the morning of June 4th 1983.HE KILLED FOUR PEOPLE.

If you can place some of your convictions against the death penalty aside and really study the case with an open mind you would have to come to the conclusion that he was the killer.

To believe otherwise would lead me to think that some of you have been watching to many movies where the wrong guy gets framed.

The State does have the right guy and on Tues.2-10-2004 at 12;01HRS Mr. Kevin Cooper's debt to society comes due.End of story,end of all this bs about race,end of all of these misinformed messages on this web site.....

On another note,Xowie,you seem like a pretty smart person but your comments about bond underwriting is wrong as it relates to financing local law enforcement.

Local law enforcement is financed by the General funds of munincipalities,as in sales tax,property tax and assesement varies fees. Bond underwriting is usually used for capital improvments and deferment of large short term debt...

well i dont know much about the case but from what ive read i think hes guilty. It makes me sick that these people are crying racism isnt it racist to say that they where either white or mexican.they say that three unfamiliar whites who happened to be hells angels where seen a nearby bar they also say the little boy saw 3 mexicans looking for work some say he actually said it was 3 mexicans that did it. make up your minds where they 3 white bikers or 3 mexican day laborers.

oh i got a story for you fools maybe those 3 day laborers where actually members of the mexican mafia and the whites where with the aryan brotherhood maybe they paid the mexican men to do

their job. this makes as much sense as thinking someone will confuse 3 mexican day laborers to 3

white bikers with blond hairs. come on people kevin cooper is a monster who deserves to die

he destroyed a family its time this coward becomes

a man and accepts responsobilty for his action and stop blaming others

After reading a few comments I still have the same conclusion. There seems to be a preponderance of evident to suggest that this man was set-up. I myself have never agreed with the death penalty anyway as I feel no man has the right to take another’s life. But also I must add, woe to the person who harms me or my family as I'm not sure I would be in the right mind to wait for the faulty criminal justice system we have.

I am sure you would badly like to convince us, rh, because you helped convict a man in a trial that was manifestly unfair, and are going to passively observe the state's killing him. But you won't get to wipe your conscience clean here.

rh let me point out that we have established no attorney privilege in this conversation. If you say anything further here, and it is even marginally helpful to Mr. Cooper, I will personally deliver all of your comments to Mr. Cooper's defense team and encourage them to subpoena you.

Returning again and again to the victims and the horrible nature of the crime just inflames the discussion. If any visitors to this page would like to convert hearts and minds, prove to me that this defendant was convicted in a fair trial, in a fair and unracist venue, with non-tainted, non-circumstantial evidence.

Six of the jurors, including the foreman, submitted statements to the Governor against the execution based on what they now know of the heinous police misconduct in the case. These people know every bit of the evidence, and they are sad for the victims too, but they are telling you, and we are telling you, Kevin Cooper should not die.

California Supreme Court denies Cooper's latest appeal in a six to zero ruling on the merits.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=4297199

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2004/02/06/EDGV34P6UT1.DTL

Former Cooper supporter and defense team member speaks up on the latest developments in the case:

"It proves, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that Kevin Cooper was involved in the murders..."

U.S. District Court for Norther District of California denies Copper's request for injunction based on Cruel and Unusual punishment argument.

http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/judges.nsf/5bad77aa69d3fd7d88256d480060b717/532735976af75c3a88256e32005c0f97?OpenDocument

zagg, or whoever - is that it, or are there more appeals after the District Court and Cal Supreme denials? Can they go to the 9th Circuit?

That wasn't me. But I don't know what other options there are.

My understanding is the "somebody else did it- he's innocent" arguments ended with the California Supreme Court.

He can appeal the "cruel and unusual punishment" argument to the 9th circuit and the U.S. Supreme Court, however, the U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled that Lethal Injection is not cruel and unusual.

I CAN'T JUDGE THIS MAN ON HIS ACTION, BUT I DO SEE THAT HE IS GUILTY FOR RAPING AND TRYING TO STAB A YOUNG GIRL TO DEATH AND THEN HE RIGHTS ALL THESE NOTES, AND HE ESCAPED FROM A MENTAL WARD. HE SIMPLY SHOULD BE HELD FOR WHATEVER HE HAS DONE. I FEEL HE SHOULD STAY IN JAIL FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE, .........IO JUST CAN'T GET OVER BEING IN A MENTAL PLACE AND WRITING ALL THESE LETTERS ABOUT HIMSELF ON THE NET.COME ON DUDE.....OH, WELL JUST PRAY................

Hey, I am a student at CABRILLO HIGH SHOOL and i just heard about this guy KEVIN COOPER and the crime that people whant me to believe, but I think that Cooper is not guilty because there are many hoops and holes in this cas. I know this becasue one of my teachers told our class about it. I did not know about this "CRIME" till today i havent heard or dean it on a t.v or radio. why? I dont know. Maybe the whit man doestn wnat us to know what is happening out there. At my school there was a riot, again the name of the school is CABRILLO HIGH. It was very crasy there was bottles and trash cans trown every where. there was a fight between LATINOS and BLACKS. why? i dont konw but it was based on racist because the white man sees us the rest as a threat so they hve to start something to try to keep us apart and fighting each other, we should be helping each other adn fight against the white man and his system. i think that the cas with cooper is based on rasism also because he is black. when have u heard or seen a white man be charged with the death penalty?.... NEVER!!! the main ones who actually been penalized with the deatch penalty were latinos and black never hve i seen a white man benn charged with the death penalty.

Richard Allen Davis is white he got the death penalty.

David Westerfield is white, he got the death penalty.

william Bonner was white and he was executed in California.

Robert Harris was white and he was executed in California.

Ward Weaver is white, he got the death penalty.

What do they have in common beside getting the death penalty? They all killed children. Just like Mr. Cooper.

The lesson to be learned here isn't that the system is racist, its that the system, just like society in general, gets REALLY angry when somebody kills an innocent child, and people who do so, will pay the ultimate penalty.

This is to say nothing of the dozens of "notorious" white serial killers and mass murderers who are now or previously have been given the death penalty as a sentance throughout the country. (Dahmer, Bundy, Gacy, Manson, McVeigh, Gary Gilmore, Jack Trawick, etc etc etc...)

There is extensive research on who gets the death penalty. It is not the race of the offender that is most determinative, it is the race of the victim. If you kill white people, you are far more likely to get the death penalty no matter what your race or ethnicity.

There is one more factor. Most of the variance in who gets the death penalty is based on the state and city where the crime is committed and prosecuted. I live in Texas, so I see it first hand.

In the case of Mr. Cooper, there appears to be sufficient evidence to order a new trial. Does that mean he is not a scary person with a history of violence and mental illness? No, it does not. But the fact that he has a history of violence and mental illness does not mean he is guilty of this crime.

I too want the killer(s) caught and punished. Don't we all agree on that?

In California, there have been 11 executions since the reinstatement of the death penatly in the mid 70's. Only one was black. Mr. Cooper will be the second. Enough on race already.

Nationally, 8 whites have been executed for killing blacks since the resumption of the death penalty more than 2 decades ago. Conversely, 124 blacks have been put to death for killing whites, according to the Death Penalty Information Center in Washington. U.S. Justice Department statistics show that in interracial cases, blacks kill whites 2.5 times as often as whites kill blacks, a difference dwarfed by the 15:1 ratio above... If you are white, basically you can kill a black man or woman and feel almost 100 percent secure that you're not going to get the death penalty for it. (zagg)

Kathleen:

His previous crimes don't make him guilty of this one.

The fact that he was convicted beyond a reasonable doubt and on now 7 different occasions appeals courts have affirmed that conviction make him guilty of this crime.

Amnesty International Report: Death by discrimination - the continuing role of race in capital cases.

Much more here.

More recently, Cooper was given another execution perk: he could choose anything he wanted for his last meal. He told the authorities he didn't want a last meal. He has since been offered psychiatrists and priests by the very system that is planning to kill him. "For all these people to suddenly start caring about whether or not I'm alright, asking me, 'Are you alright? Do you want to talk to us?' I find this ludicrous. I find this insane. So I refuse to participate in these rituals," Cooper told us.

Most devastating of all was a pre-execution search for veins in his arms by medical staff, for which he refused to roll up his sleeves. This occurred just a few hours before our lengthy interview on Feb. 2. "So they pushed my sleeves up, and they checked my arms, and they found my veins," Cooper told the radio audience. "But then they said, 'Wait a minute, we have to make sure.' They put me in a holding cage, went and got some tourniquets. Then [the doctor] started massaging my arm and my hand, trying to see if he could find my veins. I looked at him and asked, 'Isn't this against the Hippocratic oath that you take as a doctor against killing people?'" He said, 'I'm not killing you. I'm just checking for your veins.'"

I find the comments and logic proposed by the anti-death penalty people to be truly absurd. I appreciate your cause but hitching your wagon to a murdering rapist like Kevin Cooper seems crazy. I am sure there are cases out there that warrant further review, this is not one of them. I also find the martyrdom of Kevin Cooper to be reprehensible. He seems to blame everyone but himself, including the "man." When one person on his side stops trivializing the innocent people he slaughtered and takes on responsiblity for the acts committed, we will be on the road to a better place

Race is not an issue for me when it comes to this case. If Kevin Cooper was white, I would feel the same way. I never claimed that he was innocent. I only claim that there are a lot of unanswered questions. I've been reading up on this case for many years, been following it and have felt the same way through the years. Something stinks.

I do know that if me or someone I cared about was on deathrow and issues came up that needed resolving, damn straight...I want them resolved, one way or the other.

We live with a justice system that believes that a person is innocent if there is a reasonable doubt. If he had had a fair trial and there was not so much evidence overlooked and mishandled, then I'd say, ok. But there is reasonable doubt that he is not guilty.

I, we...have a responsiblity and privilege as citizens of the United States to see that an innocent person doesn't die over a crime he didn't commit.

Smarten up people...get over the emotion of the case and start being logical.

As a religious Catholic, Gov. Schwarzenegger might have publicly acknowledged that Pope John Paul II declared in his encyclical "Evangelium Vitae" (The Gospel of Life) that, as a practical matter, executions cannot be justified in modern times. That was in 1995. What are the teachings of the great religions of the world on this subject? That, too, would be a worthy question to pursue.

"The death penalty has no legitimate place in the penal system of modern civilized societies," Peter Schieder, an Austrian lawmaker who presides at the parliamentary assembly of the Council of Europe, the continent's leading human rights guardian, wrote Monday in an open letter to Schwarzenegger. Schieder also called on Schwarzenegger to reconsider his decision to let Cooper die. Other leaders, including Foreign Minister Benita Ferrero-Waldner, have also criticized Schwarzenegger's stance on the matter. "I was really happy when Arnold Schwarzenegger became governor of California," Ferrero-Waldner said Tuesday. "But I must say, I am really disappointed."

Riverside has the highest number of inmates per capita on death row, with 54. A statistically proportionate number would be slightly more than 30...The only county with more condemned inmates is Los Angeles, the state’s most populated, with 193 — 11 more than expected under the 1 to 54,700 ratio.

Jackson said he will seek a meeting with Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who has already decided not to grant clemency. "(The governor) could not know as much as these six (jurors who have expressed doubts). "Why is there this rush to kill, with so many questions? All the evidence must be weighed." He said a justice system that is often "flawed" cannot always come to the right conclusion.

I only recently have been seeking information on this case. The defense seemed to have some very good points and so I wrote to the governor to ask

for more light to be shed on this case before the defendant is executed. I am glad to have found this site and been referred to more information on the prosecution's case against the defendant.

What I have read so far is very compelling in implicating Mr. Cooper. I intend to become more informed.

I have one question. No one has mentioned if Josh Ryen was ever helped with any therapy after

this horrible event. And in particular, if anyone used hypnotherapy to try to help him. I know from what he has written that he spends a lot of time alone and with his memories.

I asked an esteemed teacher of hypnotherapy, Marleen Mulder,one of the founders of the Hynotherapy Training Institute in N.Calif., about the use of this therapy for crime victims. She said that it is very subjective and that the best approach is a healing approach. When the intent is to heal the patient, in the process, the memories of the event are released. This is a much better way to work than encouraging the patient to remember details of the crime.

She also mentioned the use of hypnotherapy in solving the Chowchilla kidnapping.

9th circuit court of appeals rules that 'new evidence' in cooper habeus corpus appeal lacks any probative value. Execution is to proceed.

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/Documents.nsf/54dbe3fb372dcb6c88256ce50065fcb8/973892d910002c7788256e320075ee1e/$FILE/Cooper_SOS_Order.pdf

Ninth Circuit also rules lethal injection is not cruel or unusual punishment.

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/Documents.nsf/54dbe3fb372dcb6c88256ce50065fcb8/973892d910002c7788256e320075ee1e/$FILE/Cooper_TRO_opinion.pdf

The thing that bugs me most about this is that the victims are always forgotten. The evidence leans heavily to this guy committing this horrendous crime. Those of you who so much sympathy for the perpetrator, pls, pls, pls give some thoughts to the victims.

If the debate is about the death p